My military M-16 weighed about 6 pounds. My civilian AR15's each weigh about 9 pounds naked. I think the original purpose was light weight and high velocity. I guess thin's where it's been, fats where it's at.
It's an amusing accident of history that modern ARs are as heavy as they are. The m16a2 got a much heavier barrel than the original A1, and then they designed the m203 grenade launcher to fit that. When they designed the M4 carbine, they gave it a heavier barrel than it needed in order to fit the m203 grenade launcher. Now an awful lot of Civilian ARS are built with that same government barrel profile, even though there's no grenade launchers in sight for it to fit.
I got an AR-15 (Wyndam Weaponry) only because all the anti-gun people were telling I couldn’t/shouldn’t have one. Always been a straight milsurp guy previous but the anti-gunners kicked me over the edge. Nice rifle. Just MHO but think the AK’s round a little better; have an SKS & they fire the same one.
I love machining the 80%ers, getting them perfect,and storing them after dialing them in. I made an all white one, for winter in the north, named him Casper, the friendly ghost gun.
You are still talking about a bullet that can veer off target if it hits a blade of grass—probably why the M-16 worked better in Iraq and Afghanistan than Voter Nam.
I think Iraq and Afghanistan made a big impact. During the Vietnam War the platform was plagued with reliability issues and I know it put a lot of old guys off. The M4s and M16s of the GWOT proved themselves to be effective and reliable. Then it was found you could get impressive accuracy out of the platform with higher quality manufacturing.
I always learn a lot. One question, can you explain this sentence, “Also, the original pencil barrel might have been light, but it was infamous for shifting zero between hot and cold,” since I’m ignant?
Sure, no problemo. One of the most defining features of any rifle configuration is Barrel length and profile. That refers to how much metal is left in the walls around the bore. The original Vietnam era m16a1 had a 20-in pencil barrel. Long and skinny. The problem was that manufacturing methods of the day did not adequately deal with residual stresses in the steel. That caused the barrel to warp significantly as it heated up while being fired. The warping could cause the point of impact to shift by over a foot, sometimes several feet at 100 yd as the gun heated.
The original m16a1, and the SP one civilian version where light and handy rifles, but that wandering zero issue did not endear them to many people. Gave pencil barrels a bad rap for many years.
The military's solution, when they adopted the m16a2 beginning in 1979 was to add a much heavier barrel. A2 weighed something like 8.8 lbs compared to the six and a half pounds of the a1.
That helped somewhat with the accuracy issue, but at the expense of the light and handy nature that might appeal to people.
The versatility of the platform was probably sufficient in itself but no question the BANS were a huge boost. Most customers would just be fine with cowboy action or a pistol (which, I'd grimly point out, is still enough to wipe out a college campus) but then the AR became a symbol so everyone wanted one. Which I'm fine with: as I've said I think it's the modern equivalent of the Brown Bess and every household in a free republic should have one.
Henry's latest, the magazine-fed Supreme caught my eye. But what's the point of lever action when you can just go pew-pew-pew.
Every gun guy should try before they die a Winchester 1873 with full case loads of black powder .44-40. Many years of testing the premise have shown that it is impossible to have more fun with one's clothes on.
But, practically? Yeah, practically the AR has it all.🤪
My military M-16 weighed about 6 pounds. My civilian AR15's each weigh about 9 pounds naked. I think the original purpose was light weight and high velocity. I guess thin's where it's been, fats where it's at.
It's an amusing accident of history that modern ARs are as heavy as they are. The m16a2 got a much heavier barrel than the original A1, and then they designed the m203 grenade launcher to fit that. When they designed the M4 carbine, they gave it a heavier barrel than it needed in order to fit the m203 grenade launcher. Now an awful lot of Civilian ARS are built with that same government barrel profile, even though there's no grenade launchers in sight for it to fit.
I got an AR-15 (Wyndam Weaponry) only because all the anti-gun people were telling I couldn’t/shouldn’t have one. Always been a straight milsurp guy previous but the anti-gunners kicked me over the edge. Nice rifle. Just MHO but think the AK’s round a little better; have an SKS & they fire the same one.
Yeah, it's not legal to hunt deer with a 223, most places. Wonder why that is?🤪
I love machining the 80%ers, getting them perfect,and storing them after dialing them in. I made an all white one, for winter in the north, named him Casper, the friendly ghost gun.
I didn't need some Stoner telling me what's what!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
👀🥸🤭
You are still talking about a bullet that can veer off target if it hits a blade of grass—probably why the M-16 worked better in Iraq and Afghanistan than Voter Nam.
I think Iraq and Afghanistan made a big impact. During the Vietnam War the platform was plagued with reliability issues and I know it put a lot of old guys off. The M4s and M16s of the GWOT proved themselves to be effective and reliable. Then it was found you could get impressive accuracy out of the platform with higher quality manufacturing.
Yep, guys used them, guys saw them getting used, then they all came home and built their own.
Then some guys thought, “hey, instead of making best of the cheapest milspec rifles why don’t we try making quality AR-15s and see what happens?”
"Don't be insulting! My Weaponry isn't military grade, it's so much better than that!"
I always learn a lot. One question, can you explain this sentence, “Also, the original pencil barrel might have been light, but it was infamous for shifting zero between hot and cold,” since I’m ignant?
Sure, no problemo. One of the most defining features of any rifle configuration is Barrel length and profile. That refers to how much metal is left in the walls around the bore. The original Vietnam era m16a1 had a 20-in pencil barrel. Long and skinny. The problem was that manufacturing methods of the day did not adequately deal with residual stresses in the steel. That caused the barrel to warp significantly as it heated up while being fired. The warping could cause the point of impact to shift by over a foot, sometimes several feet at 100 yd as the gun heated.
The original m16a1, and the SP one civilian version where light and handy rifles, but that wandering zero issue did not endear them to many people. Gave pencil barrels a bad rap for many years.
The military's solution, when they adopted the m16a2 beginning in 1979 was to add a much heavier barrel. A2 weighed something like 8.8 lbs compared to the six and a half pounds of the a1.
That helped somewhat with the accuracy issue, but at the expense of the light and handy nature that might appeal to people.
Thank you!
I came across some of this info when researching a thriller novel. This would have been so useful.
I've owned near a dozen at this point in everything from
.223 to .450 even my friends in “Ban states” saved to buy a pre ban and kept buying uppers of various calibers and formats.
The versatility of the platform was probably sufficient in itself but no question the BANS were a huge boost. Most customers would just be fine with cowboy action or a pistol (which, I'd grimly point out, is still enough to wipe out a college campus) but then the AR became a symbol so everyone wanted one. Which I'm fine with: as I've said I think it's the modern equivalent of the Brown Bess and every household in a free republic should have one.
Henry's latest, the magazine-fed Supreme caught my eye. But what's the point of lever action when you can just go pew-pew-pew.
Every gun guy should try before they die a Winchester 1873 with full case loads of black powder .44-40. Many years of testing the premise have shown that it is impossible to have more fun with one's clothes on.
But, practically? Yeah, practically the AR has it all.🤪
I'm of the age when gun purchases are pure indulgence but I would dearly love a lever action to round out the armory.